Perhaps the most famous type of modern gearboxes is a preselective robotic gearbox with two clutches - DSG. The most time is the box installed on cars of the concern VAG. The article will give answers to many who arise from motorists questions about this checkpoint will tell about the advantages and disadvantages of the box. The article will contain real as positive and negative reviews of car owners with DSG box.
A bit of history
DSG abbreviation is nothing more than doppelkupplungsgetriebe (it.) Or Dual SHIFT Gearbox (eng.). On Russian-speaking forums and owners communities car Vag. You can meet such a decoding of DSG: two clips per year. :))) Next will be clear why some decipher this way.
The DGS box at the moment has different structures that are very different from each other. The first version of the box was released at the end of 2002. The box had six gears, the clutch in it was wet, kept the box torque up to 350 nm and was called DQ250.
In 2008, a lightweight and economical version of the DSG - DQ200 was published on the market. The seven-step box, the grip in it is dry type, but the box no longer pulls the big torque, it is limited to 250 nm.
The first and second option of the Boxes Concern VAG was developed with LUK and Borg Warner. In the fall of 2009, VAG developed and released a seven-step transmission with double grip already. The box was called DQ500, kept torque up to 600 nm and thanks to which it could be used already on commercial machinery. Another modification of the DSG family can account with DL501 or S-Tronic, which is also calculated for a torque up to 600 nm and is installed mainly on Audi, but only on cars with a longitudinal location of the engine. it joint Development Audi and Borg Warner 2008.
"I own the sixth Passat with DSG, I can immediately say that the car is cool. I go on it for more than ten years, and I think that the box is just unnecessary here, although to be honest, those configuration of the trade winds that are sold from us, are not worthwhile They are asked for. On the DSG boxes I want to add that during the time they began to install them, the manufacturer significantly improved it. And if someone has problems with DSG, then this does not mean that they will be each. Also, already Japanese are used robotic gearbox - Nissan and Toyota. My parents Camri has been with a robot for more than five years, and he enjoys a car every day. For five years no problems. "
Principle of action DSG.
In essence, DGS is a mechanical gearbox, but the gear shift itself occurs in it with a robot and without loss of power, and not as in conventional mechanics. In the manual transmission, the power is lost at the time of the squeezed clutch, and it is clear that at the time of the turning point of the torque from the wheels, the fuel combines the fuel. In general, the use of DSH should add a car dynamics and efficiency.
"I have two cars. On the same seven-step DSG, in the second - six. I like it very much how the DSG works. But it is worth saying that it is necessary to get used to it. The box is adaptive, which means it is adjusted to your ride mode. Can work and sharply And smoothly, it is not necessary to think that this is a malfunction. The box needs time to adapt. I like such boxes than ordinary automatic transmission. Already rolled more than 50 thousand. No problem problems. "
The main difference between DSG from any gearbox is the presence of two clips. But, in fact, still lying. Boxes are also two! And they are so integrated into one common case, which is not striking. And if the car uses two gearbox, the primary shaft can not be alone. So there are trees two, and everyone has its clutch. Now it is clear why you need a two-mask flywheel in DSG.
One shaft is equipped with gears for odd and rear gears, and the second, respectively, for even. After moving the car on the first transmission, the DSG has already turned on the second, and keeps it ready. And when the car needs to go to the next gear, the adhesion of the first shaft opens, and the second clutch quickly picks up the moment without loss of power and so on.
"I bought a Passat 1.8 TSI with 7-DSG. I bought a new one in the cabin. Already passed 30 thousand, there is no break. I want to note the amazing handling of the machine, which allows it to make it easy to maneuver on the road, including in traffic jams. With a set of velocity, the steering wheel becomes harder What gives additional control over the machine. Although the car is not racing, but periodically love to burn over the ring. True, when you enter the turns at speeds more than 100 km / h there is a feeling that demolides rear axle. So it was in my old nine, but there I myself overestimated the ass. I will try to change the rubber, maybe this is because of it so demolitions. But as for the box itself, the car accelerates just gorgeous, the dynamics is at the height. To weave - 9 seconds. In the D mode, the box switches the transmissions, as if seeds click, still double the double grip allows you to keep two speeds included at the same time. If you translate the box to the sports mode, and to pour the sneaker to the floor, then up to 190 km / h you can get oh how fast. Personally, I get to squeeze 210 km / h. In short, I have no complaints about the box. Works great."
The inclusion of the gear DSG occurs by conventional clutches of synchronizers, and the plugs are driven by hydraulic cylinders, with the help of hydraulics, the clutch is turned on and off. He directs all these processes that the most notorious "mechatronics", which contains in its module the main electronics and the electro-hydraulic of this checkpoint.
The shaft of the even gear of this checkpoint is hollow. In the assembled form inside it is the shaft of odd gears. Such a cunning was able to accommodate two MCPs in one case.
DSG reliability
Unlike classical automatic transmission, which neither clutch, nor a powerful flywheel, DSH uses these components. Moreover, the flywheel needs a two-mask and a good margin of strength, like a manual transmission (minimum 150 thousand km of run). But in practice, the flywheel at DSG may fail much faster.
"The seventh DSG is a real selo. I blurried not only the mechatronics, but also a grip. Moreover, judging by the forums - I'm not alone. The familiar master said that for him every month I consistently arrived at least one Audi, Volkswagen or Toyota with problems of the same box - then mechatron, then clutch. And always this repair is simply unrealistic money. Yes, what to say - thug on the request "Mechatronics for DSG" and everything will become understandable. But with DSG-6 things are different. Earlier I was a golf with sixth DSG, which did not prove it with anything bad, because I was not afraid to buy a car with such a box, but seven, what I regretted. With golf for 5 years there was no problems. I will not have a board, those who want to buy a car - Do not buy cars with 7-Dsg. "
The wet type of clutch in DSG is better cooled, which is why it has a greater resource - about 300 thousand km. But the resource of dry clutch is declared 150-200 thousand km. But again, dry clutch in practice does not consume so much, and the reason lies in the box control system - mechatronics. In it, before running 100 thousand, damage usually occurs electromagnetic valves. But the thing is that the mechatronics is located on the top of the PPC block, which is heated as much as the box itself. To understand that the box is heated very much, it suffices to say that its design is not for the presence of a water-oil separator (heat exchanger). You can imagine what temperature drops is experiencing a mechatronic on the car, which first spent the night on the street in the twenty-graduate frost, and then I went along the highway with a decent speed, or even worse - began to "crawl" in traffic.
As you know, demand gives rise to a proposal, and today there are many services that offer Mechatronics repairs. The official dealer does not do this, and offers a complete replacement of the PPC. It is worth noting that DSG in the usual garage will not be able to repair - special tools are needed, which ensure compliance with the accumulation of up to five microns.
Consider options DSG boxes
DQ 250 (DSG-6)
The box has six gears, can withstand torque up to 350 nm. Clutch at a wet box. Often the box is indicated as DSG-6. The box needs regular maintenance every 60 thousand km, which consists in replacing the oil and filter. If the oil is not changed, the mechatronics fails quickly.
This is the first generation of DGS boxes, which was used on VW cars: Golf 5 1.4 FSI and diesel 1.9 and 2.0 TDI ; Touran, Passat B6 with diesel units 2.0 TDI ; Skoda Octavia second generation with two-liter turbocharged diesel ; And Seat Leon with the same diesel unit. The box is not devoid of flaws, but over the past more than 10 years, many car owners managed to eliminate. DSG-6 has proven itself well.
DQ 200 (DSG-7)
Seven-step KPP designed for torque up to 250 nm. The box has a dry clutch, the manufacturer does not provide for the regulatory maintenance DQ200. Many car services are still advised to perform a regular replacement of the liquid in the oil circuits of the PPC. Most complaints from car owners on this box.
Since the box is not designed for a serious torque, it was installed on the mediterranean models 1.4, 1.6, a maximum of 1.8-liter engines, mainly with a turbine.
Box had constructive features, for example, pumping it hydraulic system Connected on demand from an electric motor. This allowed the car to be more economical at low loads.
It would seem - excellent gearbox, light, economical, dry clutch from LUK is designed for 300 thousand km of mileage, it is not necessary to serve the box. Ride and rejoice! But ... these "but" will be written just below. In the meantime, you will continue to acquaint with the types of boxes.
DQ 500 and DL 501
Serious "korzas" for a serious moment - 600 nm. Installed mainly on expensive and powerful audios, VW minibuses, although it is found on two-liter turbocharged Tiguen . The grip is wet, gear - seven.
Typical problems DSG.
But now consider those "but", about which mentioned above. It all started with many with a small grincling, clanging, shocks sometimes when driving irregularities, sometimes on an even place with a measured ride. After turning to the dealer, he conducted the diagnostics of the CAT, which did not detect any errors, and in the absence of vibration and jerks, the client was usually refused to the client. VW urged to consider such "small" malfunctions with a normal phenomenon.
But even more was the number of complaints about pushing, vibration and tremors when switching transmissions with 1st to 2nd and simply when driving at low speed. If the problem is not treated, then over time it has grown: the strength of vibrations increased, the clutch began to slip. Could even disappear even or odd programs. Translations were returned after replacing clutch disks.
If the hydraulics of the box overheated, the transmissions begin to be turned on by jerks, as if hinting with the driver that they say, "change the intensity of switching, moving evenly." Such problems most often arise in traffic jams, where the ride manner is appropriate: moved, stopped, moved, stopped. With such a ride, the hydraulics is heated in the box strong enough, and the clutch is experiencing an increased load.
Some motorists complained that the box did not want to include the transferences. No. And it could happen in motion. Sometimes the restart of the car solved the problem if it did not help - it was necessary to repair or change the mechatronics.
"I go to Volzz Passat 6 with an automatic DSG. Excellent Everything was all for a long time, there are no complaints to the box, but as soon as I decided to sell the car, it began. Flying gearbox, and what is strange - on a flat place. Drived about 50 km / h, and all - The box was simply refused to switch the transfer. I had to cause a tow truck. For a hundred sentenced some kind of "Mechatronics". According to experts, he burned down due to the fact that it somehow got the oil. For the repair, they requested a little more than 100,000 Russian rubles. I just went nuts, but what was done. After that, I was talking to other owners of such cars. Everything is aware of such a problem, and it is often found. And I didn't know, and I did not have time to sell the car. Conclusion - the box needs a serious refinement. . Early still put it on cars. "
Next, the manufacturer discovered an unpleasant feature. synthetic oilused in DSG: In a warm environment, the oil began to interact with copper parts of the block, sometimes causing a short circuit. After that, the clutch ceased to turn on. Many owners rushed to change the oil on the mineral water, but, alas, I could not solve a fully problem, and such an oil does not meet the climatic Russian conditions.
Some car owners changed who is mechatronics, and who is entirely guaranteed. But it did not give a blanche card for the future - there were many cases when the same problems arose already on the stubborn boxes. The opening of the "dead" boxes revealed the presence of chips, which was liked, most likely due to improper operation of the control unit of the PPC.
Answers to frequently asked questions on DSG can be found
It is worth remembering, 7-DSG are actually unrepretentious. The repair of the box on third-party services is carried out at their own risk and without any guarantees. Even the oil in it in the conditions of the garage is practically unrealistic.
How to determine that your DSG has failed mechatronics:
The box switched to N mode and on dashboard You see the "PRNDS" indication;
The first transmission is now turned on very rigidly;
In the same way, the switching between the transmissions 1-2-3 is tight, sometimes clear clicks are heard at these moments;
When braking on the second gear, vibration is clearly felt;
When revolutions below 2 thousand, the feeling appeared that the thrust was disappeared.
In many negarters, it is worth thinking about the feasibility of purchase new box - Its cost can be equal to the cost of the average car in the secondary market.
What is the percentage of DSG breakdown? And no one would say anything. Official statistics are: in warranty period Apply to the replacement of DSG approximately 5% of car owners. As far as this is true - unknown. One thing is known - if you have such a box, then it does not mean that it will absolutely fail. Most cars are still driving without problems with DSG.
"I can say for sure - if you do not know how to use DSG, then you don't need to lie. I have a Passat with DSG-6, I have been going on it for almost 7 years. No problems do not give the box. I change the oil during and that's the first time. When replacing the oil, I thought - pour the original, or to take some substitute for cheaper. I did not take risks and flooded the original. In the box, when the oil was replaced, I saw dirt and chips. The car by that time began to start and twitch a little. I thought that if the oil was not helped, It is necessary to go to the service. After replacing the oil, all the problems disappeared! Everything began to work as on a new car. But my kum decided to save and bought a non-original oil. The week chased, and the car became a stake. Make it start, but the transmission to switch the box already Could not. In the end, I got to replace the gearbox at the dealer. In addition to the fact that the dubbed bought a bunch, I had to wait for a month. So do not leut into the box of any g. "
By summing up complaints of car owners with DSH, you can conclude: the DSG box does not tolerate the ride mode with the constant work of the clutch system and frequent gear shifts. A typical example is a permanent ride in traffic jams. Such a ride overheats the box, wear off the clutch and breaks mechatronics. But, for driving in traffic, it is preferable to names such or a classic automatic box. It is terribly uncomfortable to pull the "Kochergu" in the traffic jam, so they buy residents of metropolis cars with DSG, for a comfortable ride. But it was not there...
Next, it is important to keep in mind that DSG is not for "riders"! She does not like sports driving, and receiving the engine promotion with a squeezed brake pedal for further sharp breakdown can kill DSG with dry clutch literally from one such start.
Generally, problems of DSG Lit in complex technologies, and well done Volkswagen, which develops and improves the topic of fast and at the same time smooth driving, being, in fact, the leader in this area. Yes, and environmentalists have a certain pressure on these developments - after all, the usual automatic transmission consumes more fuel, and therefore emissions into the atmosphere of such cars more.
So still - buy or not a car with a DSG box? Why not? But it is advisable to take a car from VW not older than 2012 or with a box DQ250. After all, you need to understand that there are problems from other machines and with another type of gearbox. What is worth, for example, the French automatic machine DP0 / DP2. Yes, DSG has more percentage of failure, but it is not equal to one hundred. Yes, and from exploitation and timely service, much depends. I would like to believe that many typical shoals corrected the latest modernization of this type of gearbox, and now problems with boxes will be much smaller. But if you are still a true connoisseur of durability and reliability, then you don't need such a box, brother. " Look for anything at the present simple - a simple manual transmission, a simple bundle of a car, smaller frills and electronics in the car, because the simpler the mechanism, the less likely the breakdowns. This rule concerns not only cars.
But the author of the article still hopes that problems with new DSG remained in the past, and if they were not left, then a couple of years, and VAG "re-introducing" this type of gearbox to an optimal state. And the remaining manufacturers will also start equipping their cars with such a gearbox. After all, still damn nice to ride the car with DSG!
To collect information about the operation of the DSG box, its breakdowns and faults, leave your feedback and share your experience. Descendants will be grateful to you.
Every year the automotive market offers a huge number of models, complete sets, modifications for every taste and wallet of the buyer. In addition to design, comfort and engine, a variety of proposed transmissions are presented. More and more manufacturers are equipped with cars as a mechanical, so automatic transmission. But if the mechanics differ in the main number of steps and gear ratios, then with automation the situation is more complicated. They are represented in several types, differing from each other by the principle of work, design, scope of application.
Most often, the buyer's choice drops on 2 types of automatic boxes - classical automatic transmission and DSG, which is also called a "robotic" box. Consider each type more and try to decide what of them is better.
Automatic
The classic hydrotransformer box is the most common from automatic transmissions used in cars. Its first samples began to be installed back in the 20s of the last century, but it became a full-fledged it only closer to the middle of the twentieth century, when all three major components were combined into a single mechanism. These main components are: hydrotransformer, planetary gearbox, hydraulic control unit.
In such a machine there is no rigid clutch, and the torque is transmitted due to the circulation of oil inside the torque converter. Switching steps occurs by means of a planetary type gear in a box, and the control function performs hydraulicock.
The popularity of this type is due to its sufficient reliability and maintenance. The focus should be based on the quality of oil and timely maintenance of the hydrotransformer.
On average, modern automatic transmissions have from 4 to 6 steps. The management includes the main modes:
- "D" - movement.
- "P" - parking. Used for long parking. Machine movement is impossible.
- "R" - reverse.
- "N" - neutral. Machine movement is possible. Used for short-term stops or for towing.
- "L" - movement on reduced transmission. Used B. sophisticated conditionsWhere the engine speed is important.
One of the weighty disadvantages of this type is price. Due to the complexity of the design, the cost of the box is quite high, which entails an increase in the price of the car. It is also worth noting that such a transmission is satisfied with heavy and adds an additional 20 - 30 kilograms of weight. This negatively affects dynamic characteristics and on fuel consumption.
But if the budget does not allow you to buy a car with automatic transmission, but I want exactly the machine, then alternative option Another type of transmission - DSG, also referred to as "robot", will be excellent.
DSG gearbox
Robotic transmission - So usually refer to the DSG box. The mechanism is similar to the usual manual transmission, only the function of switching the steps performs automation.
A distinctive feature of this type is the presence of two clutches. Each of them is responsible for its row of steps - even and odd. Starting the first transmission movement, one disk is closed, while the second is ready for switching to the next step. When the desired turns of the engine and speed reaching, the first disk opens and closes the second, translating the box to the next transmission. When the speed is reduced, the process occurs in the reverse order.
Thanks to such a system, the torque is transmitted as smoothly and without loss of power, which significantly reduces fuel consumption.
But there is such transmission and substantial disadvantages.
According to statistics, DSG more often than other CPP fails. One of the most problem seats In such boxes - clutch. Disks are subject to rapid wear, which is why clutch is slipped. From this, jerks appear when switching, failures, reduced dynamics. The electronic control unit also quickly produces its resource, disorders appear in the electrical circuit. All this entails high repair and maintenance costs.
What is common between automatic transmission and dsg
- Automation. Both transmissions are automatic and the driver is not necessary to be distracted by clutch disclosure, switching lever, gas pedal regulation. This is especially important for drivers who only received a driver's license and have not yet acquired enough mechanical box management skills.
- With a good state of transmissions, the switching occurs smoothly, comfortable, without jerks.
- Modes and their letter notation are identical.
Main differences
- In the automatic transmission there is no rigid engagement with the engine. In DSG, two clips responsible for their number of steps.
- Fuel consumption with DSG box lower than that of the machine. Switching the "robot" occurs as short as possible, which reduces the load on the engine.
- Car dynamics with automatic worse than with DSG. Due to the features of the clutch, the engine with automatic transmission is required more load for overclocking.
- Automatic transmission is more reliable robotic. According to numerous studies, the robot is most often susceptible to breakdowns.
- Price and service. DSG is cheaper, but requires significant repair and maintenance costs.
What type and for whom it is better
Automation is widely popular among women. In this, perhaps, both types of transmissions will not yield to each other. But it is also important to take into account the conditions of operation. Due to its design, the automatic transmission is suitable for urban conditions. Although the consumption of the automaton is higher, in conditions of DSG traffic jams are much more susceptible to wear.
3 (60%) 2 votes
Robotic DSG transmission is the main gearbox for cars included in the VAG (Volkswagen, SEAT, Skoda This can be attributed to Audi, although there is a DSG called S-Tronic). Recall that today there are three varieties of DSG - two with a wet clutch and one with dry. The first refers to the six-speed DQ250 and seven-step DQ500, the second type includes DQ200, which received dubious reliability glory.
In today's article, we would like to talk in detail about DSG 6, discuss her reliability, talk about cars that are equipped with her in 2018, ask the owners of their opinion, then they think about the robot of his pros and cons.
What cars are equipped with DSG-6
First of all, let's get acquainted with the list of new cars that are equipped with a six-speed DSG with wet clutch, which are sold in Russia in 2018.
Czech brand, which at the moment belongs to the German concern, with the result that the entire technical starter in the cars is completely similar to Volkswagen. Robot with clutch in the oil bath, installed mainly on all-wheel drive, or on powerful modelsto which
- Kodiaq - Robot is available on crossover with 1.4 liter gasoline engine With a capacity of 150 hp and full drive:
- Octavia. and Octavia. COMBI - In both types of body, the DQ250 is available with top for model 1.8 liter gasoline engine capacity of 180 hp and full drive
- Octavia Scout.- essentially the same wagon, only with increased road clearance and the presence of plastic protection in the circle of the body
- Octavia RS. and Octavia Combi. RS. - the sport car Equipped with 2.0 liter gasoline turbo capacity of 230 hp and front drive
- Superb. and Superb Combi. - Here the six-step is installed on the front-wheel drive version with a 2.0 liter motor with a capacity of 220 hp. and on the all-wheel drive version with the motor of the same volume, but with a capacity of 280 hp
- Yeti.- At this model, the robot is only available with a full drive and 1.8 liter gasoline engine capacity of 152 hp
Volkswagen.
The German automaker has a wide list of models with DSG 6, which can be bought in 2018 in Russia, they include:
- Caddy. - Compactwan, who is not so often you can meet on the roads of our country, the wines of everything is quite high cost, although the car is excellent. On this model 6 step box Available with 2.0 liter 140 strong diesel engine and full drive.
- Caddy Maxi. - As you can guess the name, this is an enlarged version of the German compacttva, the robot here is also available with a 2.0 diesel engine and a complete drive.
- Passat and Passat Variant - Unfortunately to russian market Only options with front-wheel drive and 2.0 liter diesel engine with a capacity of 150 hp
- Tiguan. - The second generation of the popular crossover has a wider list of variations, compared with the first generation to which DSG-6 is installed. Mostly it is 1.4 liter engine with a capacity of 125 to 150 hp, and there is also the ability to select front or full drive.
Pros and cons
Let's start with the advantages:
- shift speed. Robotic transmission clicks the transmission significantly shouter than this makes the average driver. There is a huge number of video on the Internet, where testing the excavation of the same vehicles differing only by the checkpoint and how the practice of auto with DSG always accelerates faster than the machine with a mechanical transmission;
- the second advantage of the modern transmission can be considered smoothness of overclocking, due to the absence of sensations from gear shift:
- fuel consumption is significantly lower than the indicators at the standard automaton, and the mechanic is inferior, the truth here everything depends on the driver's experience.
The disadvantages of which most often complain owners in 2018
- some owners are not satisfied with the fact that in the traffic jam you have to switch the selector to the position N (Nonral):
- rumors about unreliability. With an excellent potential of cars, sometimes you want to press the gas pedal and leave with a whistle from the traffic light, but it happens terribly for transmission, because To extend her life better to start smoothly, and then starting from the second program you can press gas;
- the cost of repair and components, compared with mechanics.
Reliability, how are things in 2018?
The issue of reliability is perhaps the main fear that stops many when purchasing a car concern VAG. The issue of reliability and negative reviews about the robot began to appear on the forums and on the network only after the appearance on the seven-step robot DSG-7 in the market with dry clutch, while on the market for a long time sold cars with "wet", which did not cause complaints. Practice shows that DQ250 is able to go away about 150,000 km without any problems, provided properly operation and proper maintenance. Car owners buying new cars can not worry about anything, because The warranty will allow without questions to correct the shortcomings using the dealer. But buying a car on the secondary market is better to diagnose the DSG 6 box, and then serve it replacing consumables and oil.
On reliability, the fact that even in sports models, such as the Skoda Skoda Octavia RS, the transmission will not break on 100,000 km on runs. And this is expensive, because This kind of cars operating quite rigidly and not rarely go to the tracks.
2018 owners reviews
We talked with the owners of cars equipped with this checkpoint and this is what we had to learn
Vitaly owner Volkswagen. Passat CC.
Really like it looks like this car. Prior to that, owned the dorentyling version of the SS Passat with a 1.8 liter engine and a seven-step robot, unfortunately it was necessary to sell. . I decided to buy a restyled version with a 2.0 liter engine and "wet" DSG, which I do not regret, because For three years of operation, the box did not give any problems.
Thatha owner Skoda Octavia. RS A7.
Selected between Audi A4 with 2.0 liter motor, Volkswagen Golf GTI And the OCTAVIA RS itself, stopped at the latter due to the price value of the car. What I can say the car and gearbox is pleased completely, the year rolled back on the drain, then I made Stage 1. At the moment, the mileage is 42,000 km, thinking about to make Stage 2.
Kirill (Bravo_77) Owner Skoda Yeti
The second car was bought for pokatushek not new. Long searched for Seat Freetrack due to the presence of a full drive and proper DSG, but not finding an instance in an acceptable state for reasonable money, I decided to take the Yeti, even by the volume of the engine it is a little and inferior, but it looks much better. At the moment, the car has Stage 3, more than 320 hp and enhanced transmission. The car does not regret pushing constantly from Lunch, while I change the oil in the box every 15,000 km, the oil of Vagovsky. At the moment, the mileage of 78,000 km of Karabas holds confidently.
Ilya Alexandrovich Owner Volkswagen Tiguan
Tiguan was bought new in Rolf, which I could say the car appeared outwardly, and in the salon a pleasant design plus a lot of space. Of course, I wanted to take a 2.0 liter with a seven-step robot, which is installed on Audi, but unfortunately finances allowed only 1.4 150 forces and DSG 6. At the moment, the mileage is 17,400 km and what I can say, thanks to the Shrine work of the gearbox and turbocharger, the engine low-speed Feels, for the urban ride it is enough for his eyes. Regarding the gearbox I can say the following - speeds switch quickly and smoothly, before that I had Outlander with a variator and camry with a machine gun, so the robot DSG impressed me more so in the future if I would choose new carThis will definitely be equipped with DSG.
We hope in the article, we were able to answer all the questions you are interested in about the reliability, resource and advantages and minuses of the checkpoint, and also give an answer - whether it is worth buying a car equipped with a DSG 6 robot in 2018.
More details of the owners are reviewed in our next article.
Five ten years ago volkswagen models We were considered exemplary reliable. This is true, all thanks to the experience of the 90s and the beginning of the 2000s with a massive import of really reliable Golf, Jetta and Passat. They were not at all "unhappy", but in general, the stereotypes of reality are more or less corresponded.
The situation has changed noticeably with the appearance of TSI engines in the model range (about which we are quite recently) and preselective "robots" DSG. A bowl of public opinion gradually began to be inclined in the opposite direction. The opinion is inertial, and at first the problems of new power units and transmissions were simply not recognized, especially since the fair part of the "fans" moved on cars of past generations without these troubles. The unfortunate owner of the problem car came across not only with very rigid charges of "guarantee engineers" and other official structures in "incorrect operation", but also with public censures on profile resources on the network.
In general, the arguments of the officials and "social activists" were approximately the same: the owner of the damned irrigor oil and the wrong gasoline and misunderstood. In those rare cases when the oil has always been strictly "original", gasoline - from the ideal supplier, and the moral qualities of the driver and the nordic character outside of suspicion, the public opinion was inclined to the fact that this is a random marriage and in general "happens."
Meanwhile, cases became greater. More and more owners of new cars with new engines and small runs fell into a situation where the repair of the motor or transmission was required. It is impossible to squeeze, and even more so harder the owners of cars in problems.
By the beginning of the 10th, a public opinion took place. Of all the packages, the simplest, with classic hydromechanical AISIN automatic transmission and atmospheric engines were announced direct injection and turbocharging. Prices for cars with DSG and TSI engines In the secondary market, there were noticeably lagging behind not only from the price of machines with the "ordinary" automatic transmission, but also from machines with MCPP and simple 1.6 MPIs. The fear of "Downsayza" gave rise to a funny effect: we bought Skoda Octavia in large quantities with a 1.8 TSI engine, the benefit of the difference in the price of 1.4 TSI was small, and AISIN automatic transmission was given.
Price analysis on the secondary market clearly shows that the DSG is unnecessary to be demonized, the machines with such automatic transmission are sometimes worth 100-150 thousand rubles cheaper than similar machines with AISIN TF60SC, and even cars with a rather reliable six-speed DSQ DQ250 at a price do not exceed the machines with MCPP .
But rather deviations. Let us stay more on the features of the breakdown of the most massive and cheap DSG boxes Series DQ200 and try to answer a simple question - is it possible to buy a car with her now.
Portrait of a patient
First about the conversation. As practice shows, most of the participants in the discussions are not commonly informed, what unit as it is called, and even more so - as it is arranged. The automatic transmission of the DQ200 series, it is 0 am/0cw and the belonging of the 0CG box for hybrids, includes a lot of transmissions for motors with a cross-location of the engine with different gear ratios and housings.
Photo: Volkswagen-media-services.com
All these boxes are seven-step, with dry normally open clutches in a single block. The complex design of coaxial clutches is designed in collaboration with LUK: Actually, the original set is their delivery. In the design used purely mechanical system Compensation of clutch wear, but it is not the main one. The box works with a two-headed flywheel, which in itself is a detail with a limited resource.
Operating pressure hydroaccumulator
The mechanical part of the box has a separate oil bath, which also works differential. The mechanical mechanical block is located in front of the box and can be replaced without removing the entire unit. The system has a hydraulic engine of all four rods to turn on the gear and both frames of clutches. Maslonasos - with electrical drive. Also in mechatronics there is a hydroaccumulator with a working pressure of 50-75 bar. DQ200 is almost completely independent of the rest of the machine electrical system, even the crankshaft speed sensor has its own.
The design of the engines with a torque up to 250 nm is calculated, and in practice it withstands as many as 350 nm and even slightly higher. The unit is designed specifically for use with low-power motors as a transmission with a maximum efficiency and a large dynamic range.
In practice, this means that the box works great as with engines for 80 hp and 125 nm of the moment and with 1.4 and 1.8 TSI engines, which in the peak give 250 nm. Of course, with more powerful motors, the load on the mechanical part of the automatic transmission is slightly higher, but in contrast to classical hydromechanical automata, the load on the mechatronics does not depend directly from the transmitted torque.
The gearbox, in essence, mechanical, but has a composite primary shaft and two secondary. The inclusion of gears is carried out by couplings, as in conventional MCPP. In such a design, everything seems to be reliably, if the bearings are withstanding, but ...
List possible problems It turned out to be quite large, and the problems in the mechanical part are not in the last place. With them and let's start.
Typical breakdowns
If the diagnosis issues an error 21096 P073A, 21097 P073B, 21094 P072C or 21095 P073D, then this indicates problems in the mechanical part.
First of all, plugs on the transmission. Here they move using the ball bearing ball. And she, as it turned out, does not withstand the load, after all, the switching of the hydraulics performs very quickly and rigidly. After damage to the sleeve, its inner plate is sent in a box sailing, causing damage to the gears and creating a metal garbage. The latter not only manifests itself as an abrasive, but also scores the Hall sensors that are needed by mechatronics to control the box. In case of serious destruction, balls can fall. It is more complicated to grind them, but the box will cope with it. That's just the loss will be even more.
Not only the plugs include the first-second gear, as many think. The fork of the sixth back breaks as often. The design of bearing sleeves they have fundamentally the same. After 2013 and on repair forks, the design of the sleeves is completely replaced, they become solid. It is nominally a resource of such a design without a ball bearing less, but it does not break, and purely resource problems do not show themselves. It is such a design that is installed on 0CW.
The remaining breakdowns of the mechanical part of the box in most cases are considered as secondary, associated with oil pollution due to breakdowns of rods. Thus, a breakdown of differential, painting gears gears, complete destruction of the seventh transmission and overheating of bearings in most cases is caused by the presence of metal dust in oil, the product of the fracture of the forks. They themselves are rarely rare, and are usually associated with a tuning of a motor or a missed oil level. Well, or unsuccessful build of the box: like any MCPP, DQ200 is sensitive to assembly and settings.
Differential breakage can be a completely independent problem: satellites are welded to the axis with an increased load due to an unsuccessful design, and not due to any other problems.
Faults with numbers P175 21062/21184 and P176E 21063/21185 indicate problems with clutches and their wear.
The breakdowns of the clutch block and the two-masted flywheel are driven by the DSG breakdown list, but in essence it is its integral parts. The flywheel is wears with seriously twisting oscillations, when starting, slipping clips and wheels, when driving irregularities under the burden and such situations. Worn accelerates overheating and contamination of the structure.
The clutch block also does not like dirt, but the complex design has much more vulnerable points. But for us, the main thing is that at the price of replacement of about 50 thousand rubles, the new versions of this node are simply more reliable and better hold the gaps during operation. Installing a shield on the hole for the stem rod allowed from 2012 to significantly reduce the contamination of the clutch crankcase and their wear. Adjusting the working clearance is assigned to the master, and the general list of typical disorders when assembling is almost a dozen points.
Also, the clutch block strongly suffers from the illiterate driver's work of the driver in traffic jams and on rough terrain. By the way, both clutches normally open, so it is absolutely no need to translate the box to neutral to reduce the loads on mechatronics and clutch in traffic jams. But the node still remains quite complex and expensive. And very vulnerable to driver and technicians.
Nevertheless, the resource of even the first versions of the node can be very solid 150-250 thousand kilometers and more. And in terms of resource stability, the latter versions have greatly added: after 2012, there are almost no cases of wear of the clutch block to run 100 thousand.
The main breakdowns of mechatronics
The remaining breakdowns of DQ200 are associated with the "Mechatronics" block - the electro-hydraulic box control unit. His problems may well harm both the mechanical part, because the inclusion of gears is carried out independently, and the clutch are not connected with each other. List typical breakdowns Blocks are quite voluminous. So you have to execute it in the form of a list.
- Farming of the pump electric motor
- Cleansing solenoids management
- Pressure hydroaccumulator failure
- Breakage of the electronic board or its sensors
- Frames of the case of mechatronics due to cracks of channels or breakdowns of a glass of hydroaccumulator
- Leaks and loss of tightness
Another three or four years ago the opinion prevailed that any breakdown of mechatronics demands its replacement. The arguments were abound, ranging from the complexity of the structure until the absence of spare parts.
The block itself was not too well performed. What caused that reason - unknown: or Romanian assembly, or the quality of the work of German engineers. It is important that the replacement was expensive, and besides, guarantees regarding his subsequent happy life was also not. Fortunately, now the situation has changed. Repair documentation and typical faults have appeared.
The situation is complicated by the fact that since 2015, the electronics blocks are unarmed once and cannot be installed on another machine. It "killed" the nascent market of restored blocks, but, apparently, the people's craftsmen will soon decide.
Electrical malfunctions (brave fuses in the automatic transmission circuit) are connected mainly with hydraulic block.
Typical errors - 21148 P0562, 21065 P177F and 21247 P189C - are mainly associated with damage to the conductors of the electronic board and with the failure of the mechanical pump of mechatronics.
Conductors board literally burn out, damaging its body, and the motor just gets up due to breakdowns of the pump or due to its own problems. Often burn the pump windings.
Surprisingly, the burnt boards learned to repair one of the first. Power tires are simply overlapped, the benefit of special equipment is not required for this. Motors change or simply rewind, now such recovery is available in the factory. The price of "bashing" electric motors and recovered by factory methods ranges from one to five thousand rubles.
Fault 18156 P1748 and 05636 P1604 are also associated with an electronic board, but this is damaged by the control module.
The ceramic fee is afraid of vibrations and temperatures, as well as overheating. Electronics restore harder. But, like other car electronic blocks On a ceramic substrate, they can be repaired. We need only skill and special equipment. And yet - the availability of documentation. All this is now pitching in specialized service centers, and such a malfunction is not a sentence of the board.
The failures of individual sensors, in addition to the clutch position sensor, can be resolved with replacement. Buying them is no longer difficult.
Solenoids will also fail. There are eight pieces there, they are combined in two blocks 0am325473. Washing helps them not always. But there is a sufficient amount of used, restored and even new details at a reasonable price. The typical price of a set of two factory recovery blocks is about 90 dollars.
Mechatronics management fee 927769d, which includes all sensors, conductors, brains and connectors, are available at a price of about 40 thousand rubles. Replacing the board assembly is a good repair option, if partial repairs are not possible, or conditions do not allow it to perform. Moreover, you will get the most modern version of the board, with improved characteristics. If you want to even reduce costs, you can order a board on Aliexpress or eBay at a price of from 200 to 300 dollars.
Eleaches can be expected from the main aluminum board-enclosure of the block and the hydroaccumulator. The hydroaccumulator can snatch from a block with damage to the thread, and it will run the housing cover. At the same time the liquid will go. The case often flows at the "glass" of the hydroaccumulator. The crack can be brew, the benefit of the place is enough, but it will take very high quality work with milling cavity. In extreme cases, the entire case can be replaced. The price of the part on Amazon is about $ 40, which is not so much, but in Moscow, it will cost you in 150.
The average price of repairing mechatronics assembly will be about 35-50 thousand rubles. Usually in the same limits are the price of a node repair from various specialized companies that install the blocks restored by them instead of yours.
The average repairs of mechatronics
35 000 - 50 000 rubles
Progress in the design of mechatronics touched literally all the elements. The control board has changed dramatically, in newer versions it is noticeably more powerful and more resistant to temperature and overcurrent. The case of the mechatronics block has become stronger. But the hydroaccumulator, apparently, did not change, as well as the pump electric motor. Solenoids also changed the minimum. But the company replaced the oil in mechatronics to less chemically active. It is assumed that this will prolong the operation of solenoids and plastic control board.
Among the faults, the mechatronics has almost no such that will require it full replacement New. So the price of the node assembly in 300 thousand rubles should not be scared. Restore will be released much cheaper. But the breakdowns of the mechanical part can do expensive, but already now there is a good choice of "diet" units, who have mechanical part is in guaranteed good condition.
It is believed that the main problems of the DQ200 series boxes decided with the release of the updated 0CW in 2013. Yes, there are many changes compared to the 0am series. And almost all affected nodes could be found in the list of "main problems" old version boxes.
Take or not take?
Does it make sense to buy a car on the secondary market with such a box now? And new? The answer will rather "yes" than "no". But only if you are not among the "riders" and you will not bring any small fault to a full breakdown. If you do not belong to such, then make a solution in favor of choosing a machine with DSG DQ200 quite a lot.
First, at the current price for fuel, an extra liter-half consumption is a significant help, and DSG is more economical than even manual transmission. Secondly, the car in the secondary market will almost certainly be much cheaper than the same car with the "classic" automatic transmission. At least, because of the fact that "robots" is too afraid, and the difference in the price of cars is even higher than the price of replacing the unit assembly to the "contract".
Mechatronics Management Board 927769D
40 000 rubles
Another reason is the convenience of diagnosing DQ200 using a scanner. It is already far from buying a cat in a bag. You can learn not only approximate clutch wear, but also to understand how the car was operated, what trouble can be expected in the near future and the like. From knowingly problem instances you can refuse.
Classic automatic transmission received so rich diagnostic capabilities only on the latest generations of six and eight-speed boxes, and AISIN, which usually acts as an alternative to DSG, does not apply to such.
The price of the repair of most damage DSG has drastically decreased over the past five to six years. If you pay attention to the incorrect behavior of the box on time, then the chances of inexpensive repair are very good. The design of this "robot" is simple and extremely maintainable, and now there is no doubt about it.
In severe cases, when mechanical nodes of the box are irreversibly damaged, offered a good choice Used components. It turned out that machines often have a lifetime longer than this very troublesome aggregate.
And the last argument in favor of DSG is purely ideological. Machines with a classic "machine" are often taken by people who exploit the car hard, without regard to the leadership and manuals. Such cars can quite naturally be a big mileage, and the loads that they are transferred during operation are very high. A few years later, it becomes unknown, which machine will be more profitable acquisition: initially more reliable, but past "fire and water", or the one that demanded much more tender treatment and received it in full.
How is your DSG box?
DSG is decrypted as a direct switching transmission that has automatic gear shift drive and equipped with two clips. We will tell about the principle of work DSG, its features and disadvantages.
Features DSG.
The transmission "DSG" is connected to the engine through two clips. Through one clutch work odd and rear. And through the other - even. Due to such a device, a smooth transition from one transmission to another is carried out.Let us give an example. The car moves on the first gear, and the second gear gear is already in engagement. Although it turns around while frightened. At the moment of switching, defined on a computer, the hydraulic drives are simultaneously released the first clutch and the second closure. The torque comes from the engine is transmitted from the first transmission to the second. Etc. And then the opposite. When the sixth gear is included, the sixth gear will be rotated simultaneously with it in case of a drop of engine speed. As a result, the engine is constantly connected to the transmission, and the gear shift is carried out without breaking the power flow.
It is not necessary during the stop of the car with "DSG" to translate the lever from the "Drive" to the "neutral". When the machine stopped and the "Drive" mode is turned on, the first and second transmission will be ready to work in the transmissions. If the machine stands on "neutral" - then the first and reverse gear. If you stopped at the "red", then in order to avoid breakdowns and wear of synchronizers, it is not necessary to translate into the "neutral".
Advantages of DSG. The fact that not only reduces the time of acceleration, but also saves fuel. It is even more important that the illusion of a permanent ride on one transmission is created, no switching is noticed. In the cabin there are two pedals - "Gas" and "brake". Transmission selector as a "automatic", but you can go to manual mode, translating the lever up or down.
On gear last generation Installed electronic system Transmission switching control. It provides smooth gear shift, taking into account the speed of the vehicle, the opening value throttle valve and engine temperature. For example, in a slow cork "Box" will not constantly switch from the "first" to the "second" and back, and will go to the fixed "second" transmission ("first" - too short). Due to this, the period of operation of the transmission increases and overheating is reduced, because There is no extra switching. And if earlier the owners for a smaller "twinge" in traffic jams included a fixed transmission, now it is not necessary.
In sports mode, each transmission is turned on a little later. Due to this, the engine is developing greater power, which means it will be better than the acceleration of the machine. Conveniently, if you need to join the fast moving stream of cars or when overtaking on the track. But the fuel consumption will increase.
Disadvantages of DSG.
Although the transmission "DSG" is long produced company Volkswagen.Many motorists have questions. It's connected with frequent breakdowns and warranty repair. The first versions could already have to be repaired to 100,000 mileage and actually exhausted the resource of reliability. Now the situation is improving and VW gives a guarantee for new boxes up to 5 years or 150,000 mileage.But did the situation with reliability changed? As before, all more complaints from car enthusiasts to the "dry" version of DQ200. They are still often broken, distinguished by increased jerks when driving through traffic jams. And although repeatedly changed software And some knots of the box (grip and mechatronics) - there are still questions. Another thing is the "wet box" DQ250 - it is already comparable by resource and reliability with other types of automatic transmissions.
To avoid problems with the reliability of DSG, it is contraindicated overheating, chip tuning and dashing starts from the traffic light.
Replacing the oil in the "dry" version of the DQ200 is designed for the entire service life, i.e. No need to change. This is the official position of VW, but by unofficial - it is changed every 50,000 km. For reinsurance and extension of the bearing resource. In the "wet" version of the DQ250 change the oil in 40,000 km, although the official position is a replacement after 60,000 km.
Box itself dSG transmissions According to the design - an excellent solution, but requires small improvements to technical Plan. And if they continue to improve from VW and the correction of prolonged baby errors, then you can count on a resource like a "variator" or a modern "automaton".
